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Monday, November 9, 2015

The crystal ball

November seems to be a pretty active month for the brick and mortar houses that host antique bottle auctions. 

Glass Works is running Session II, 'The collection of the late Rusty Frye', closing on November 23rd.

John Pastors "American Glass Gallery" Auction 15 closes on  November 15th.

Norm Hecklers Auction #131 runs through November 18th.

And of special interest to western collectors is the current offering  that recently opened at ABA in Sacramento, which closes on November 15th.

There's a lot of speculation on the street about who is going to bid, and on what, at ABA's auction 62. There is literally something for everyone this time around with a good selection of some scarce western whiskey cylinders and flasks, sodas, meds., and bitters. East coast collectors will find a nice selection of bitters and historicals. And both eastern and western collectors of cathedral foods will find some nice offerings as well. That plus fancy oil lamps, Boston & Sandwich glass perfumes, and even a handled free blown pitcher.


I thought that it would be fun to toss out some examples and ask for comments on where you think things will land when the dust settles. 

1) Lot #56 - California Clubhouse. 
2) Lot #55 - Dr. Wonsers USA Indian Root Bitters
3) Lot #3 - Rothenburg chicken 
4) Lots #1 & 2 - Columbians
5) Lot #7 - Denaveaux & Maison
6) Lot #8 - Livingston BB Brandy
7) Lot #10 - green Star Shield / J.F. Cutter  
8) Lot #15 - Laurel Crown
9) Lot #17 - Wilmerding / United We Stand
10) Lot #18 - Tommy Taylor - red German
11) Lot #25 - Phoenix flask in olive amber
12) Lot #30 - green Lili flask
13) Lot #33 - Jesse flask
14) Lot #67 - Non Pariel handled flask
15) Lot #59 - Indian Tla-Quillaugh's


C'mon gang; break out your crystal ball, strap on your blindfolds, grab a dart and give it a toss at the board. Will you hit the bulls-eye, or miss the target completely? 

Let's have some fun. 

Let's hear it~




Westernglassaddict said...

I think Bill is pretty close but I think the Club House will hammer at closer to $40k, and the Dr. Parker's will reach $12k. The greenish JF is VERY nice with super glass character, so it might be a surprise. DM


I hope you are right about the CCH I have held the Star and the pictures do not do it justice what is your opinion lets have a contest who ever is closest to the dollar amount wins the bet one dollar I will gladly pay

Westernglassaddict said...

My total for all of the listed bottles above...$94,700. I am in for the dollar bet. Remember, you cannot go over the total or are disqualified. I am invoking the Price is Right rule. Dale M.


OK sounds good my total is 89,900 come on Bruce give us your thoughts

Kentucky Gem said...

My crystal ball isn't working so well these days, and even without a blindfold, I can't hit the side of barn with a dart, so will post what the most recent sales amounts of some of the following have been. At the risk of getting a black eye - here goes.

Lot #56 - California Clubhouse. No recent sales - nice light example - limited players - $20~ - $25K
Lot #55 - Dr. Wonsers USA Indian Root Bitters. Last similar at auction brought $11K+ (auction)
Lot #3 - Rothenburg chicken - Last four undamaged examples sold for $3K each (retail)
Lots #1 & 2 - Columbians - Last undamaged amber example sold for $1.7K (auction) $2K (retail) Last clear example sold for $750~ retail.

Lot #7 - Denaveaux & Maison - Last two undamaged examples sold in the $5K+ range (retail)
Lot #8 - Livingston BB Brandy - Last undamaged amber example sold for $1.2K (auction)
Lot #10 - green Star Shield / J.F. Cutter - Last similar colored example sold for $2K (auction) this one's already past the moon and still going @ $3.8K...

Lot #15 - Laurel Crown - No recent sales - this is a top example - the other two that have been on the market recently have issues - I'd think that $2k - $3K is a fair guesstimate.

Lot #17 - Wilmerding / United We Stand - Last undamaged example sold for $3K (retail)

Lot #18 - Tommy Taylor - red German - Last three undamaged red examples sold for $795~ (retail)

Lot #25 - Phoenix flask in olive amber - been a while since this color has hit the market - neck issues - $750?

Lot #30 - green Lili flask - Who knows... $750~?
Lot #33 - Jesse flask - Last one at auction brought $3.4K - Already at $4.6K
Lot #67 - Non Pariel handled flask - No recent sales - this is a nice example - realistically? - I'd think that $2K+ is a fair guesstimate.

Lot #59 - Indian Tla-Quillaugh's - Nothing to gauge it with~

Kentucky Gem said...

Update - #15 Laurel Crown has damage also. I missed the mention of it initially. Color and condition seem to be the pressure points for collectors today. That may well have a negative impact on the hammer of this lot~


I missed the damage on the UWS and the LC should of read the listing better before I gave the total oh well I added up your numbers and added 7k for the Parker seems it is already at 6k and came up with 71,645 seems a little low and the denaveaux that sold for 5 was a super example I don't think this one will come close

Westernglassaddict said...

I think Bruce's estimate on the green Lilienthal is a little light, as it SHOULD sell for $2000-$3500. You just never know these days though and flasks are in a "valley" right now. The Jesse flask is always popular on par with an amber Gold Dust in scarcity and overall desirability. The CCH will be really interesting and someone could get a great deal. It has everything except the glass character which they typically do not have anyway. The JF is to me a much better overall quality piece, and while not rare, it has it all. It will be exciting to see the flurry of bids at the end! I still stick by my estimate. Dale M.

Kentucky Gem said...

You are correct with regards to the green Lili. The $750~ figure was a copy and paste from the preceding Phoenix flask and I failed to insert the correct figure. Should have read $1,250~ - $1.5K.

Rick Simi said...

Some thoughts from an uninformed collector
#56 CCH - Last CCH I personally watched being sold went to a Lake County collector at over 40 K. I know of at least two folks that want this bottle so...26,500
#55 Wonser's - Good color whiskey base 14 K
#3 Chubby Chicken - Tool top but picture whiskey market seems to be soft 1500
#1 & 2 - Guy that discovered America I have seen one mint example in the Lindgren collection pretty plain bottle amber 1200 clear 600
#7 - Belt buckle rare fifth 2800
#8 Blackberry brandy - 1100
#10 Green Cutter - The bid on this is already over me estimate mates.
#15 Laurel Crown - Damaged 1500
#17 United - "without defect (crack) would grade 9.2" What does this mean? 2200
#18 - Tommy T - Lots of these around 650
#25 - Bird rising from ashes good color damaged? 800
#30 - Green Lili - Low S.F.? not mentioned in description 900
#33 - Already over what I thought it would hammer for
#67 - Handled jug / flask Can't remember what the last one sold for 3500?
#59 - Parkers Indian med. Lots of quiet collectors of high end western meds This one will surprise you when the auction ends 13K +

Thanks for the opportunity to participate - rs -


Glad you joined in Rick I figured your total at 79550 the 2 bottles you didn't give a price for I added the existing bid

Rick Simi said...

Thanks and can I get in on the wager?


Heck yeah anybody and everybody the more the marrierererer

Westernglassaddict said...

Man I could be way off on my estimate! Seems like the "damage" trickles out as the auction progresses. I went off of the original descriptions but will pay up if I go over...anyone notice the blue H&G? :)

Rick Simi said...

Typical ABA description of the condition of the auction pieces. Just what the heck is two small burst bubbles and missing the top but grades 93.7 without the issues?

Anonymous said...

Kinda like bidding on an antique gun that's rated NRA "wonderful".

Kentucky Gem said...

Interesting observation. I was on the phone with a close friend, who is the co-owner of a large new car auto dealership, this evening. He too, is an avid collector of western antique bottles and has been following both the auction, and the "WWG" comments. He shared an interesting observation about the evolution of descriptions and drew a parallel to the car business.

He said, quote; some dealers "Don't sell the steak, they sell the sizzle, and deal with the heat later".

Pretty well spells it out...


We both might be over I think Jeff described them OK I just didn't read the description my fault but I will gladly pay too
I was thinking about the H&G that is a great soda but not for 8k I`ll chase something else maybe good luck hope you get the CCH
I`ve been trying to get a couple other people to enter our little wager but they said nope

Rick Simi said...

Tell the other people "no guts no glory"

rtsiri said...

I'm not going to play the value game with you guys cause I'm always living in the past . But I'm sure the results will put a smile on my face .


And folks we have a winner congratulations to Rick Simi somebody might wanna check my figures 84,250 I did the addition with a pen and paper

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